From firstname.lastname@example.org (Jeremiah McAuliffe) Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam,alt.religion.islam Subject: Geisler-Saleeb Anti-Islam Book, Part 1 (2/3) Date: 1996/09/04 Message-Id: <email@example.com> Jochen Katz wrote: >I will leave this thread for Abdul Saleeb to answer ... Looking forward to it. Should I continue my analysis and posting while we wait for him? > In article <firstname.lastname@example.org>, > email@example.com (Jeremiah McAuliffe) writes: >| He writes that we believe God to be One from both revelation and >| reason. Wrong. We know it from revelation alone. Reason cannot >| penetrate God. We know only what has been revealed to us. We rejected >| long ago the type of speculative philosophy and theology that would >| provide a "reason" for us to say such a thing. >This is a most strange sentence to hear. THE most often advanced >objection by Muslims against the Trinity is "that it does not make >sense". Well, most often advanced or not, I would not agree with it as the reason for its rejection. The Qur'an itself states objections to it. The problem here is the *foundational* causes for our statement that God is One and thus the rejection of the doctrine of the trinity. Foundationaly it is purely because of revelation, secondarily it will be because of reasons. Remember, that in Islam reason and revelation are complementary. Please note how I qualified the type of reason, when alone-- apart from reference to revelation-- as "speculative". Our reasons rest on the foundation of the Qur'an-- not speculative thought. Again, and to stress the point: it is an issue of the foundations for the belief and secondary forms of support for the belief. We believe it because it is in the Qur'an, which we think is revelation. Why someone has faith in the Qur'an as revelation is in the realm of the mystery of God's guidance. >Now, what is "making sense" other than putting the standard of "reason" >against that of revelation? Muslims time and again reiterate that Islam >is a "reasonable religion" supposedly in contradistinction to the >unreasonable Christianity... Muslims accuse us of BLIND Faith, while >Islam supposedly has clear evidence and reasons for believing it. Yes. I was responding to Geisler saying it as a *foundational* statement. The bottom line for a Muslim is what is in the Qur'an, and the issue of trinitarian monotheism is clearly in the Qur'an. This does NOT mean that nothing else comes into play, or is not also used, such as reason. I mean, the Qur'an is constantly urging us to use reason by looking at the patterns in creation, history and ourselves. However, something so transcendent as the "essence" of God, which was the general topic, is not at all amenable to reason, though reasons may be used to support one's statements about the "essence" of God in light of revelation. This is the same in Christianity. >Based on this background, I am really wondering why you are rejecting >that reason is an important part of 'how Muslims believe in God'. I'm not. But it is always in response to, and dialogue with, the Qur'an. Our use of reason does not originate out of nothingness, but out of the Qur'an. Jeremiah McAuliffe firstname.lastname@example.org ------------------------------------------- Visit Dr. Jihad's Page 'O Heavy Things! http://www.city-net.com/~alimhaq/miaha.html
I did not reply. The issues are taken up further between Jeremiah and Abdul.
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